Parliament’s Appointments Committee’s Vetting of Minister for Roads and Highways, Kwame Governs Agbodza on January 20, 2025 (1)

Chairman, Bernard Ahiafor, MP, Akatsi South: Clerk of the committee, may you proceed to conduct the oath taking for the nominee.

Agbodza: I, Governor Kwame Abuja, swear by the almighty God that the evidence I shall give before this committee touching the matter in issue shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So, help me God.

Mahama Shaibu, MP, Daboya/Makarigu: Chairman, Honourable nominee, congratulations on your well-deserved appointment. My first question to you, of course I won’t talk about your competence, you’ve done that a lot, has to do with the road sector debt.

In this very room, your predecessor, the Honourable Amoako-Atta, when he was being vetted, he was asked a simple question, that what debt was left behind in the ministry for the ensuing government. Then he was straightforward. He said there was a huge debt of GH¢1.56 billion that was left for them to clear. Can you tell us what the current status of the road sector debt is? Thank you.

Agbodza: Thank you, Chairman. Once again, I thank my colleagues for giving me the opportunity to appear before them. Yes, the question asked by my respected colleague is something the whole country must pay attention to. Indeed, in 2017, our respected colleague, who is no longer a Member of Parliament, in his words, was alarmed by the fact that the NDC government was leaving a commitment debt of GH¢17 billion in the road sector, and GH¢1.5 billion that being certificates approved which were not paid.

At the transition committee, it turns out that as of today, I’ve not been to the ministry yet, what they presented to the committee, the NPP government is leaving a minimum of GH¢100 billion commitment. What you should be worried about, though, is that in that same document, they are saying that certificates unpaid as of today from GOG amount to about GH¢20 billion.

The ones with road fund is about GH¢15 billion. What you should be more worried about, my brothers and sisters and colleagues listening to us from outside of this hall, is that if you take the indebtedness up to 2025, which is the road fund debt alone, out of the GH¢15 billion, look at these details. In 2018, we were owing about GH¢113 million.

The interest on the GH¢113 million this year will be GH¢665 million. The debt was 113. The interest on the 113 is 665 million. When you take 2019, 210 million, the interest on the 213 million is 960 million Ghana. 2020, we were owing 424 million. The interest on the 424 million is 1.5 billion. 2021, the debt was 616 million. The interest on that is currently 1.69 billion. 2022, 693 million, and currently 1.4 billion.

The question is, how do I explain this to the taxpayers in Adaklu? That we owe 113 million, and the interest on the 113 million is 665 million. I believe the issues about the road sector concerns all of us. Everybody here wants better roads to our communities. These are not monies that have been thrown away, but it’s because of the way contracts are written in this country, which says that if somebody raises a certificate and you don’t pay after a period of time, 30% interest accrues on it.

As a result of the 30%, we are made to pay 15 billion on road fund alone. The question is, the 20 billion that is GOG, what will be the interest on that? Nobody knows. If the interest on 4 billion together is 15 billion, imagine what it will be. So, I believe the way forward, if I am approved by this House, is to sit down with the finance minister to see how we can deal with it. This cannot continue.

This is not value to Ghana. This is not value to the contractor. This is money being wasted. We cannot accept that you owe somebody 4 billion, and in this year, you are going to pay a total of 15 billion. That is principal plus interest. This cannot continue. This is something that the Ghanaian taxpayer… It means that today, if you collect 10 billion tax today, you are going to give the 10 billion tax as interest, which is nothing.

So, Honourable Chairman, this is a very serious matter, and I want all countrymen and women to avert our minds to it. This is not about NDC or NPP. Like I said, these road projects are in our communities, so how we deal with it is something that must attract the attention of our country so that we put a stop to it. This is not sustainable. Thank you, Chairman.

Chairman: Thank you very much, Honourable Shaibu. By the rules, you have one follow-up question relating to the answer provided. Do you have any follow-up?

Mahama Shaibu: Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman: So please proceed with your follow-up.

Mahama Shaibu: Honourable nominee, you have stated clearly that interest is one of the biggest problems that we have if you look at the composition of the debt. Understandably, you don’t expect a contractor who has gone to borrow at 50% interest to do your work, and then you expect him not to add whatever he has on it. So, is it a question of contracting which you intend to look at, or a question of looking for other sources of funding to pay off contractors as quickly as possible? Thank you.

Agbodza: Thank you, Chairman. It’s both. Indeed, not every contract in our country attracts interest in terms of delays. And I also agree with you that when a contractor gets a project and is encouraged to go and borrow money to execute that project, and he goes to borrow money and is paying interest, and when he raises the certificate and is not paid, of course, the bank is expecting him to pay the principal plus the interest. But what I’m saying is that this cannot continue.

I don’t know how the finance minister is going to fund this because I foresee easily a situation where he’s going to have to find 50 billion. And out of that 50 billion, the majority of that money is not work done in your community or my community. It’s interest. And I don’t think Ghanaians will be happy with any of us.

So, the finance minister’s responsibility will be to sit down with the sector ministers to deal with this unsustainable interest compounding, daily including today, so that we can make it possible for us to derive value for the monies we spend on our projects. Thank you, Chairman.

Chairman: Thank you very much. Honourable Chief Whip.

Frank Annoh-Dompreh, MP, Nsawam-Adoagyiri: Okay, Chairman. Thank you very much. Chief Whip, congrats. I heard you quite well when you spoke at length, looking at the interest and debt that has accrued over the years. And you beautifully also added that when this house is gracious enough to approve you, you will sit with the finance minister that was your first statement. And then you also wondered how the finance minister will navigate in the face of the difficulties.

I also know you have been ranking on the Roads Committee for a while. If you put it all together, you should be telling us solutions. And being aware of all these challenges, what are some of the solutions you want to profess in the wake of the difficulties we have? Yes, we are all aware of the difficulties, the interest, and all that. What are the solutions? I heard you on your political platform and all the good things you said, referencing your manifesto and all that. Tell us some solutions.

Agbodza: Thank you very much. I think this is a very important question. First of all, whatever solutions we have, we still owe, and we have to pay. That is why I referenced the finance minister to start with. How is he going to raise the money? I don’t know at the moment. It is his responsibility to raise the money.

But I think, additionally, what we should be doing is sit down with the industry players, contractors, and the agencies that are awarding road contracts. We need to sit down with them. The way we contract, the way we write some of the contracts has to be reviewed. Government itself needs to take a step back to find out whether it is appropriate to keep awarding projects when no one knows where the projects are going to be financed. Take the 2024 budget. Go to the capital expenditure section.

You may realise that the entire amount that is for capital expenditure at the road sector may not be more than GH¢4 billion. Yet, this year alone, or last year alone, the quantum of projects awarded is probably three or fourfold. Why is it possible to award projects four times what has been allocated for you in the budget? It is something we need to work out with.

The easiest way to do this is to sit down with the industry players, the contractors, and the awarding agencies to come up with something that does not actually make the contractor worse off because we want to build their capacity and they are also businessmen that are employing people. And also make it possible for government to be able to pay for what we are actually contracted to do between ourselves and the contractors. So, the synergy between these should be able to find us a solution that is more sustainable than what we have currently. Thank you, Chairman.

Chairman: Thank you very much. Leader.

Ato Forson, MP, Ajumako-Enyan-Essiam: Mr. Chairman, I have a follow-up question. Mr. Chairman, Honourable Kwame Governs Agbodza. Congratulations. Mr. Chairman, the nominee happens to be my chief whip. I have worked with him closely for two years. I know his competence.

He is one person I can vouch for his competence at any point in time. Mr. Chairman, in his answer he said, so far, the immediate past government, the NPP government, has left behind contracts worth GH¢100 billion. Commitment is contracts. So, you don’t just commit. You commit through contracts. So, contracts through GH¢100 billion. And apart from that you have GH¢20 billion being on paid certificates, GOG.

And GH¢15 billion on paid certificates at the road fund. 100, 20, 15; GH¢135 billion. The national budget, the appropriations, is just in excess of GH¢200 billion. In excess of GH¢200 billion. 135 is approximately 60-something percent of the whole budget including wages, salaries and everything, debt servicing and everything.

Are you trying to say that we should cede the whole budget to the road sector vis-à-vis what has been left behind because of what the previous government has left behind. The total road sector commitment and arrears is just enough for a whole year’s budget. Is that what you’re trying to say?

Agbodza: Chairman, the situation is even worse than that. The 100 billion commitment because these projects, some of them are designed and built. Let me give you an example. On the way to your own constituency, the rehabilitation and upgrading of Kasoa to Akoti Road. The contract sum is about GH¢1 billion. That’s lot 1. And then that is kilometre 0 to kilometre 12. Akoti to Winneba.

That leads to the respected minority leader’s constituency. That one is GH¢987 million. The remark is that new figures to be agreed. What it means is that these figures are not stable. So, the GH¢100 billion I gave you is not cost to complete. This is the projected figure as of the time this report was prepared. So, you would surely have to find extra money by the time you complete this project.

So, cost to complete will be more than this. Do I expect you to? No, because education, healthcare, even the salaries of teachers and ourselves have to be paid as item 1 things. That is why I think the way out is to sit down. Maybe everybody involved in this must be prepared to take some level of responsibility. How we do it I will defer that to you as the finance minister. Thank you, chairman.

Chairman: Thank you very much. Honourable Shaibu your second substantive question.

Mahama Shaibu: Chairman, most grateful. Honourable nominee, one fine evening we were seated and a minister of state writes a letter asking that all tollbooths and bridges be suspended without recourse to parliament. First of all, I want to know your take. Legal or illegal and what are the consequences? Then secondly what is your position on the reintroduction of the tollbooth? Thank you.

Agbodza: Thank you chairman. The issue of road toll is a matter that has attracted national attention. Our side has been consistent. I must take this opportunity to actually commend a former colleague in this house, hon Aduomi. Some time ago when the former minister, InusahFuseini was minister the accruals to the road fund was just around 250 million annually. We sat down and found out that we could enhance that. Which means more money would be made available to improve our road.

Hon Aduomi was the ranking at that time. He worked with us and we worked with the finance minister. That is why you saw the road fund increase in that year to 1.25 billion and today it’s over 2 billion. When the issue of the road toll started our side honourable former minority leader together with me and the former road minister, Hon Amoako-Atta decided to caution government that do not cancel or suspend road toll.

Let’s rather find ways of plugging the leakages in terms of the collection and enhance it. Honourable Haruna and myself met Amoako-Atta and gave our commitment that don’t cancel it. Indeed, we were surprised on the day the road toll was zeroed it. For me it was an act of illegality. The road fund has got an Act. It’s a law. So, you couldn’t unilaterally do that. As a result, I believe there was some level of negligence in the way it was done.

They claimed the road toll was accruing only about 80 million. But today there are contractors working for government of Ghana who are owed GH¢5,000 weeding the road side. Can you imagine how many road side weed clearers will be paid with 80 million. So, they cancelled it. And our side consistently stood on principle and said bring the road toll back.

Yes, the road toll is coming back. But not in the form of building obstructions on the road for drivers to stop and somebody taking money from them. It will be coming back based on a technological platform that make it fair and that make it easy to collect, easy to account for and for the public to know what the money is being used for. Together with the road minister we shall come out with a policy as to how that will be done. That is my response.

Mahama Shaibu: Thank you so much Mr. nominee. I’m glad you mentioned mechanisation because one of the biggest challenges is to leave parliament at 8 o’clock and queue on the motorway for another two hours just to pay road toll. I’m glad you mentioned mechanisation. How about the disabled who were fully and gainfully employed at the tolls? Will mechanisation be a part of the structure that will bring them on? Or you want to leave them out completely? Thank you.

Agbodza: Not at all. I happen to be in touch with some of the former tollbooth workers. They visited me. My colleagues on the committee including my respected ranking Hon Osei knows that we’ve been meeting them. Some of them have moved on looking for different jobs but we know some of them are there.

If we’re going to run this on a new technological platform, we need to find out how many of them can actually participate if they need retraining or whatever role they can play. So, indeed, if it’s coming back, we should be able to provide opportunity for some of those who have experience working in the tollbooths, though there will not be tollbooth, if we can reengage them in other sectors, we should be able to do that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman: Hon Shaibu you have the last substantive question if any.

Mahama Shaibu: Most grateful Mr. Chairman. Honourable nominee, can you just give us a fair idea of what the road network, the quantum, the mileage is as of today and what you intend to do to improve on the road network in Ghana.

Agbodza: Chairman, the data from the road agencies put unconfirmed data of close to 100,000 kilometres. That is the road network in various stages. Half of that is motorable. When I say motorable it doesn’t mean they are all sealed but they are roads you can drive on.

The other half is not in a state that is very good so we need to work on them. Indeed, there are various degrees of road. The roads leading to farms don’t need to be asphalted so we need to work out the need and find out first of all how we make roads motorable. Sometimes if you check some roads basically need spot improvement.

That is a section is in a deplorable state. Go and fix that one within a reasonable time, especially before the rains start. If you leave it, it becomes a major problem. So, what we will be doing is to take a holistic review of the road network and see what we can do to make quick interventions to those sections that are the worst and gradually bring it up to meet those that are in the better condition.

Mahama Shaibu: Chairman, I wish the nominee all the best of luck. Thank you.

Chairman: Thank you very much. Honourable Chief Whip.

Annoh-Dompreh: Honourable my good friend Chief Whip. On the toll I’m happy how informed you are and I can testify a number of discussions I’ve had with you personally and your professional advice you professed. But, I’m not a prophet of doom though, but I anticipate you are going to have difficulty because you have stood on political platforms to say, oh, Ghanaians are suffering, cost of living is high, blah, blah, blah.

How are you going to justify the introduction of some tax against all the things you’ve told Ghanaians? Be careful you don’t attract the anger of Mr. President because Mr. President has said that the price of kenkay is going to reduce, the ex-pump price of petrol is going to go down. So, my real concern for you. You’re my good friend.

Chairman: Honourable Chief Whip, what has the price of kenkay got to do with the issue under reference?

Annoh-Dompreh: I’m speaking in context. It’s important. Mr. Chairman be liberal. So, I have a lot of sympathies. The young, handsome Adaklu Member of Parliament, arguably very successful Chief Whip, how are you going to balance the scale? You are introducing a levy, a tax, and yet your party who has won to become constitutional government has said that cost of living is going to go down. Would your levy reduce cost of living or to rather increase it? And how are you going to have the confidence to introduce it?

Agbodza: Thank you very much, Chairman. The good thing is that the reintroduction of road toll was part of what we put before the people of this country, which led to this emphatic victory. They are actually expecting us to reintroduce road toll and make sure the accruals go to improve the conditions on our road.

I have never met any driver who says I don’t want to pay road toll. What I hear them say all the time is we are paying the road toll. How come our roads are still like this? So, as long as we can prove to them, we are using this money to improve the conditions on our road, I am sure they will be able to accommodate it.

However, you are also aware that when my boss the majority leader took the chair here, he suggested some of the draconian taxes that are going to be removed in his first budget. Those savings would make more meaning to the ordinary Ghanaian. E-Levy is going and it is a promise the president has made and it is going.

I am sure your constituents will be happy to see betting tax go. So, I know you mean well together in the House and together with my colleague and the rest of the committee. We are going to work together to make sure the reintroduction of the road toll together with the Ministry of Finance makes sense. It is fair. It is collected fairly and also it is applied to things that matter to the people of this country. Thank you.

Chairman: Honourable members, it is now the turn of Honourable Kennedy Osei-Nyarko, subject matter committee member.

Kennedy Osei Nyarko, MP, Akim Swedru: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Honourable nominee, congratulations. You and I have come a long way. He happens to be my ranking. And today, he has been nominated to go and hold a ministry that he, at the time, as a ranking was vociferous and wanted to see things done right.

I only wish you well and I hope you are going to do exactly what you had believed in while you were holding government feet on fire. But I have a few questions for you. Just a quick one. I want to understand what is the difference between commitments of the ministry and the indebtedness. I want you to explain that one for me.

Agbodza: Okay, so commitment is basically all the road projects that are active, not completed. So, we put a figure, the easiest way is to put the contract sum together.

That is the commitment. So, if you are budgeting… through the finance minister. The debt is what is due to be paid. That is certificates cleared by consultants, either third party consultants or agencies, feeder road, highway, urban road.

That means that you should be writing a check to the contractors or transferring money to them. So that is the difference. One is work on site or yet to be done or certified. The other one is certified work. That is the difference between commitment and debt.

Osei Nyarko: Did I hear you say that the arrears, the current certificates…

Agbodza: …and GOG, and most contractors these days, in the past it used to be people wishing their projects are under road fund because accruals are known. But since the days of the capping of the road fund, and if I tell you the road fund story here, it’s a very sorry story. Most contractors wish their projects are funded by GOG. Because then the finance minister is the one who pays. So, GoG is currently about 20 billion. And interest plus capital for road fund is what is 15 billion.

Osei Nyarko: Hon nominee, have you cited the Presidential Transition Report on Roads and are you familiar with the figures in terms of certificate that is pending for the ministry to pay in terms of arrears, have you cited it?

Agbodza: The interesting thing about certificates is that even if you were to go to the ministry today and they give you money as money they owe, the afternoon, you could find us are working 24-7 and are raising certificates on daily basis so they could, they always say this is as of the time they do, from the document we cited from the transition team which is a ministry document, the figures are what I put out. It could end up being more than this or unless maybe they paid some huge amount of money before producing this document then it could be slightly less.

Osei Nyarko: So Honourable Nominee, you and I know that the biggest challenge for the road ministry is in terms of funding gap. That is why each and every year they present their budget of about 16 or even sometime beyond billion but they ended up having only 4 billion. You are knowledgeable in that area. You have in-depth knowledge of the issues. What do you plan practically to do to address this funding gap issue that has bedeviled this ministry and making the work at the ministry a very difficult one? What do you plan to do?

Agbodza: Yes, Chairman, my respected ranking and a good friend is right. From the metrics we have seen over the years, we have always argued that for us to be able to make a good impact on the road interventions, the country must be generating and setting aside between GH¢6 to GH¢10 billion of our own money, not borrowed money. How do we fund this?

If you speak to the former Minister of Roads and Highways, Honourable Amoako-Atta, you are aware we were close to having a national dialogue on how to fund roads and make it open to Ghanaians. How much can we pay to be able to get the quality of roads we need? Unfortunately, that engagement never took place before he left. And the new Minister, our colleague in Parliament, Honourable Asenso, was also in the process.

There is a cohort of people who believe that we should engage Ghanaians on how we fund roads. Together with the committee and the Minister of Finance, I think we should be plain to Ghanaians. We need to open up the discussion about how we fund roads in our country and make sure whatever agreement we have, the monies are applied. I have argued, and you know about it.

When we tell people to pay road tolls, and the people pay road tolls, and you take more than half of that money to do free SHS, if you want money for free SHS, ask for money for free SHS. I’m not saying free SHS is not necessary. But when you take money for roads, apply that money for road interventions. So as long as we can do this and be open and honest to Ghanaians, whatever they agree, we apply to the roads, and then we can get some improvement. Thank you, Chairman.

Osei Nyarko: Honourable nominee, will you consider adopting a negligence liability period in our road contract to ensure that contractors who do shoddy jobs are taken on and ensure that they do the right thing? Will you consider that?

Agbodza: Chairman, there are various reasons why we see what we call shoddy works on our roads. Many things account for that. Sometimes it’s not even the knowledge of the contractor. Indeed, there’s always that 12-month defect liability period on construction projects.

But sometimes, especially if you watch Asphaltic Overlay, it embellishes the problem so neatly for a few months that you may never know what is beneath. But after a few months, you realise that it has failed completely. Not only the contractors. I’m an architect by profession.

If I practise elsewhere outside this country, the employer insists I take professional indemnity insurance before I touch his or her work. So, if the work fails, he can draw on the professional indemnity to get some compensation. Is it time for consultants taking on huge government contracts to take the appropriate indemnity to cover the services they are providing?

Because the Ghanaian doesn’t understand why you would do a project in his backyard, a road to sea, and six months, the rain washes the whole thing away, and then we are looking for another money to come and start. So, it will be a combination of these things. I’ve heard people talk about increase the defect liability period to 24 months. That will not necessarily solve the problem.

The problem is that we need to build the capacity and put some of the risk on the back of the consultants and others. But also, to encourage government to pay contractors and consultants on time to be able to execute the works within schedule.

Osei Nyarko: Honourable nominee, I wish you well.

Chairman: Thank you very much. It’s now the turn of Honourable Umar.

Alhassan Umar, MP, Zabzugu: Thank you, Chairman. My good friend Kwame, Honourable Kwame Agbodza, congratulations. I have a question on funding. Especially having listened to you about the huge indebtedness in the road sector. How do you intend to meet the expectations of Ghanaians, especially the new roads that we expect you to construct, particularly the Eastern Corridor, beginning from the Tema motorway all the way to Yendi? Thank you.

Agbodza: Thank you very much. Yes, I acknowledge that I come into this role with huge expectations, starting from colleagues. On record, the road minister answers the largest number of questions in parliament, more than any minister. And I must commend Honourable Amoako-Atta for that diligence.

As long as he’s available on Fridays, he’ll come and answer the questions. And I used to tease him that as for answering the question, he’ll answer, as for whether he’ll do the road is another matter, because of the same thing you are talking about. Well, the president who appointed me has made one solemn promise.

That is to be candid with the people of our country. So, wherever we are, doing anything, you let the people know. Indeed, we are not going to find it easy to satisfy everybody in terms of how quickly the road leading to the places we live are done. But what we are committed to is to make sure that whatever resources we have and apply to the road interventions, we’ll make sure everybody understands what is in the kitty and what we can get.

When my boss, the majority leader, sat in this chair, he painted another figure, which is something we should all be thinking about. As you know, as part of the debt restructuring, government postponed a chunk of our repayment or interest until this year. One bullet payment was just done a few weeks ago when the former finance minister told us. But there are bigger ones ahead of us that we must clear. So, we would spend whatever is available to be spent on the road. But as to where we find the money, that is the responsibility of the finance minister to carry.

My job is to package projects, make sure they meet the value for money, and his job is to fund it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Alhassan Umar: Thank you, Chairman. Mr. nominee, will you consider new funding methods, at least for us to have either a BOT or PPP roads from Accra to Kumasi, where individuals or road users will be paying per usage, something like the one we have in the developed country, so that it can help us speed up transportation network in Ghana?

Agbodza: Yes. Mr. Chairman, I gave an indication regarding that when I spoke about the reintroduction of road toll. But I know funding would go beyond just road tolls. And so, we are going to consider all those things, including other sources. But like I said, it is not for me to state all the sources that would accrue to road funding.

That is the job of the finance minister. I was happy you mentioned Eastern Corridor as one of the things the President actually committed to. It is a project in six lots. I think half or so have been done. But from the motorway, actually, ok, you were not there. My colleagues, we approved a loan to a company called Inzag.

I am sure they all got caught up in the debt restructuring. So, if you go there, the contractors appear to be working. But the rate at which they are working is not encouraging. So, we have our work cut out to make sure we turn things around. And we are committed to doing that. Thank you.

Alhassan Umar: Thank you. Mr. Nominee, the President Akufo-Addo disclosed in his 2023 State of the Nation Address that his government has constructed 11,974 kilometres of new road. I come from a rural constituency, Zabzugu. We have a lot of rural challenges. I don’t see it. And I want to find out from you. Is this true?

Agbodza: Mr. Chairman, yes, I remember the President appearing in the House as part of his constitutional mandate to update the House on what is happening in the country. And he made us aware of a certain figure of, at that time, new roads. It wasn’t pleasant to try to contradict the President because his sources of information are better than mine.

But the figure 11,000 just jumped out as new roads. And my side said that was a bit less than the truth. Since then, the agencies under the Road Ministry attempted to adjust the figure as part of the transition. And you remember our view was that only 617 kilometres of roads were new roads, so to say, at the time. At the transition, they provided details.

At the time of the transition, the new roads constructed is 673, which is not far from the 617 we talked about at that time. Because it means that a few more roads have been completed.

So that issue is in a record of Parliament that, indeed, Ghana did not construct 11,000 kilometres of new roads since 2017. Rather, 673 kilometres have been constructed as new roads. The bulk of the work in the 13,624.25 kilometres is re-graveling and graveling. That is 6,185.90 kilometres. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman: Thank you very much. It is now the turn of Murtala Mohammed, a subject matter committee.

Ibrahim Murtala Mohammed, MP, Tamale Central: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Honourable Nominee, congratulations. My question is simple. In your first year, will you concentrate on completing the abandoned roads or incomplete roads, or you do it alongside with awarding new contracts? And I ask this question because there are several roads that have been working on for several…

The Eastern Corridor one, for example. I have an interest because if the road is completed, it takes me less time to travel from Accra to my constituency in Tamale. And it opens up the place. And also, there are some roads in Tamale Township that are not completed. So, I want to know whether you will concentrate on completing those incomplete roads or some of them abandoned, or you would do that alongside with new roads. Thank you.

Agbodza: Thank you, Chairman. The President has already given an indication that he will complete ongoing projects. So, we have made that commitment and we intend to follow that. But I can foresee a situation where, out of need, we may have to start some new projects to address urgent issues. But in the first year, our commitment will be to focus on critical road projects which have been abandoned to make them more motorable for the use to which it was originally intended.

Murtala Mohammed: My second question. How do you intend to fund the 10 billion Big Push that President Mahama intends to do? Because the cost is huge. How do you intend to fund it?

Agbodza: Chairman, the Big Push is President Mahama’s big intervention on infrastructure. As a sector minister for roads and highways, it is my responsibility, as I said, to identify critical road projects, package them after design and everything, make sure it meets the required value for money features, and present them to the Minister of Finance for financing. As we are all aware, the Big Push is a four-year, $10 billion proposal.

The projects that will go into this basket of projects ought to be cutting-edge and the ones that make significant intervention in whichever sector. So, they are not necessarily road projects worth $10 billion. They are just big, significant infrastructure projects worth $10 billion. So, equate to about $2.5 billion annually for the four years.

Murtala Mohammed: I think the challenge that confronts us in this country on the matter of spending such huge sums of money on road construction is the durability or how long those roads last. We have had complaints where contractors finish with the road, the road is commissioned, and by one year, you find potholes on the roads.

As a minister, taking into consideration the amount of money that government intends to spend on that, what measures are you putting in place to ensure that the quality of the roads that are to be constructed using this money is something that is of tremendous interest to you and concern? Thank you.

Agbodza: Thank you, Chairman. Industry players would put a few factors as a reason the roads fail. Two days ago, I was getting a briefing to the effect that even the materials we use. In some countries, the bitumen that is used on their road are produced by themselves, so the engineers determine the composition.

If you watch in our country, even some contractors buy bitumen in drums imported from somewhere. Nobody is able to determine whether this bitumen is good for our climate. So, the materials we use, the design of the road, the supervision, one issue facing the road agencies. Some agencies, which are supposed to be an engineering outfit, which requires civil engineers, mechanical engineers, quantity surveyors, have more administrative staff than engineers. So, you could see an engineer supervising a project, and the capacity is not even there for him or her to be able to do this in reasonable time.

So, we ought to work on the staffing of the road agencies to have the qualified staff. I’ve also seen documents that suggest that some of the agencies, the level of the new engineers, the current engineers, compared to when they will retire, there’s going to be a gap, because we are not recruiting new engineers to be trained enough before they exit. So, it will be a combination of how we select materials, the design, the capacity of the contractors, and also government’s ability to pay contractors expeditiously when works are done. When contractors work, they are not paid.

They vacate the site, and you pay them some time. What happens is that once the money is not theirs, the bank takes the money, you can’t actually know whether they’re going to decide to do anything. So, to be able to deal with this matter, we should address it on all force. Otherwise, we will see what we are seeing, where you spend $4 billion on a project, and then $10 billion as interest on that $4 billion. It’s unacceptable and not sustainable.

Murtala Mohammed: Honourable Minister Nominee, the issue of the quality of manpower that you use. So, you give an example that sometimes people are recruited to work in areas where they don’t have the expertise, particularly the engineers. Are you going to build the capacity of technical people for specific portfolios, or you want to build the capacity of the existing ones? I do know that there are some who may not necessarily be engineers. An example is planning.

You and I all went to the same department. You go to the assemblies, you have people who are not planners, but who have been trained to do works that are supposed to be done by planners. Equally in the road sector. Is it an issue that you build the capacity of those who have been engaged?

Agbodza: I think a combination of both. Fortunately, Ghana has one of the best training institutes at Koforidua, where they train in-house training. Even members of parliament, we do get some capacity building sometimes within our committees to be able to be effective. Indeed, those in the service already need to update their knowledge. But critically, we need to recruit new engineers and give them that capacity so that we can have a good number of people deployed on almost 4,000 different…

Annoh-Dompreh: Honourable Whip, I’m asking this question not to question your competence at all. Far from that. I know you very well. I know you can do the job. However, I hear and often I’ve had colleagues on the other side brandishing $10 million push. You’re holding us a low… Yes, $10 billion.

You’re holding us low-lying fruits. Now, my question to you, my good friend, is… You’ve already shown some regret. The extent of the debt, the situation of the debt, which you have regretted well enough, and we’ve heard you loud and clear. You’ve also said that you will sit with the finance minister-to-be in the context of the situation you have at hand. Now, how would you draw the balance of implementation?

In terms of, the $10 billion, mind you, is not only for roads. Broad-spectrum infrastructure. So, you have so-called abandoned roads, and then people of Adaklu also come to you after you have been approved. I know you are aware of that. And you’ll be coming to the House more often than any minister to answer questions.

You are aware of that. How would you draw the balance? So-called abandoned roads, and new urgent road needs that also need to be attended to. Don’t forget, you have already said that there is no money. And then you are also going to work closely with the finance minister.

Mr. Chair, so my good friend, Honourable Agbodza, very passionate about the concerns of roads and the challenges. This big push, which I know you are very excited about, and it finds good expression in your manifesto. My question is, how would you get the balance? We have roads, in your own description, and beautifully captured by Honourable Murtala, abandoned roads. And then you also have new roads needs.

How are you going to get the balance? Already you have said that your first year you will focus on. My question is, how are you going to get the balance? Abandoned, so-called abandoned roads and the new ones which may be of good importance. How are we going to get a balance?

Agbodza: Chairman, my colleague, a very good friend, Minority Whip, is right and let me state it again. The projects that we are going to prepare for big push… abandoned projects, small projects, I already said, they are the key big intervention projects.

For instance, there has been on the drawing board for some time an orbital around Accra, which goes Tsipoli all the way to Budumburam. That project, over 100 kilometres of road, makes a significant intervention in terms of traffic management within Accra itself. That project ought to be prepared properly, costed, make sure value for money is done, and then presented to the finance minister for funding.

At the same time, it is the responsibility of finance ministry to continue funding projects that are on site. So big push is not about completing the projects already on site, but the major intervention project that can actually pay for itself, that can actually make huge impact on the country. So that is the difference.

So, we are not going to stop ongoing projects. The president has already made a commitment to that. However, the big push projects are dedicated and significant projects that are not going to be rushed, but are going to be done effectively so that all Ghanaians will get the impact of those projects. So that is the difference between the big push basket of projects, which are yet to be developed, and ongoing projects. Thank you very much.

Chairman: Honourable Murtala, do you have any more questions? You are entitled to one last question. It is now the turn of Honourable Kofi Marfo.

Kofi Ahenkorah Marfo, MP, Achiase: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to congratulate my Ranking, who is now the chief whip. I want to congratulate him for his nomination. I heard him saying that for him, the 100 billion debt, the 20 billion, and then the 15 billion, and then 665 million interest, for him, he considers that part as a waste of funding. I want to ask him, what does he mean by that?

Agbodza: Thank you, my good friend. I call you Kofi, but today, Honourable Kofi Marfo. The reason I say it is a wasted fund is this. If we owe 113 million, and because we are unable to pay, the interest on the 113 billion, it is now 665 million. What it means is that the 665 million is a waste to the people of this country, because that money is not GH¢665 million worth of roadworks.

It is just the 30 percent compounding interest on the unpaid certificate. That is what it is. Ghanaians get 113 million worth of roads, but they pay an extra 665 million extra money for nothing as interest. There can’t be a waste bigger than that, and I’m not saying it’s peculiar. It only started today. It is the way road construction contracts are put together in this country. There’s something wrong with it.

It is not the fault of even the contractors, because I earlier said they borrow money to do this work. If we were to pay them on time, there wouldn’t have been the interest compounding, so I don’t even blame them, because the 665 doesn’t even go to them. Perhaps they borrowed money from the bank, and they have to give that money back to the bank, so the only winners in this case might be the banks, but is a road ministry supposed to be a good business for a bank this way? Yes, they can be good business, but not in this format. Thank you, Chairman.

Kofi Marfo: Mr. nominee, I want to ask you, if you become the minister, what are you going to do differently, so that that 665 million wasted funds will not be there?

 

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